Curse

SotiCoto · Jun 22, 2007, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodyDotNet

*Tap* *Tap* *Tap* I think my sarcasm detector may be on the fritz. You did see that this wasn't a just a PuG, right? It was a planned Alliance trip with one or two non-alliance members. We actually had two Alliance groups go last night.

Worry not. You'd have to be living your whole life in the Twlight Zone to be able to detect accurately when I'm being sarcastic and when not.
For the record... I sort of was. I mean I never take more humans than I can help ANYWHERE in Guild Wars.... but I know most people around here seem to prefer full human parties as a matter of choice, provided they're decent humans... so I wasn't really surprised at all. Then again, since FoW is the only "elite" area that Heroes can actually do well in, it is an oppurtunity I rarely pass up on.

But yeah... I was being sarcastic, in my own bizarre sort of way. Mock surprise / opinionation and all that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrk247

Welcome to teh Interwebz!!!1

Elitism = Immaturity

That is all it really comes down to, the majority of people that are "elitists" are usually too young/immature to realise that it's just a game, and the tinted window of the internet protects them.

It seriously peeves me off when people use that line.

There is no just a game.

Life is a game. Everything is a game.
Guild Wars is much the same as anything else... If you're going to take anything seriously in this existence, Guild Wars might as well be it.

That aside... Elitism is only "immaturity" in an evolutionary sense.
The Alpha of the pack gets first pick of the meat, eats the most healthily and with any luck will live longest and spawn the most. Most people have the instictive drive to be alpha programmed into them at a genetic level... and elitism is just a defensive aspect of that programming... a desire to climb up those higher on the ladder of life and kick away those lower.

The flaw of the elitists is that because it is a crude and primitive aspect of their programming, they rarely make any real net use of it in context. It doesn't get them to the top... but just deteriorates the fun of the game for everyone else. If the community was closer-knit, it would make enemies of all of them.

... And in finishing... maturity is far less important than intelligence and wisdom.

jrk247 · Jun 22, 2007, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Guild Wars is a game, it doesn't really benefit you in the real world. I understand that people have a competitive nature to them, but it doesn't need to make them be assholes to everyone that isn't up to their standards. I'm sorry but games are different than the real world. Just because they seem realistic, doesn't mean that life is a game. There is no reset button in life, life is not a game. You speak of wisdom, I'd think you would understand the difference between a video game and the real world. This is the kind of attitude that causes people to do stupid shit. For example people killing other people in the real world because they saw it in media like games and movies.

keli · Jun 22, 2007, 02:50 PM // 14:50

What do you mean under elitism?

1, there is a group with a normal doa nuker and such, they believe it's good and can do the quest under two hours (stygian), --> a player comes in, and he/she has an absolutely different build

now: the so called elitist ppl in the group will kick the new guy, because he has a different build and maybe they cant finish the quest in time
well, IS IT A BIG PROBLEM, THAT THOSE PPL WHO DONT WANT TO WASTE THIER TIME, WILL KICK THE GUY IN A HOPE OF A BETTER ONE WHO KNOWS THE BUILD?

I say no..

2, if the guy leader kicks a guy who was stupid at the beggining it's still not ok, maybe you can give him another chance to do the "right", but after the 2nd it's ok if the leader kicks him...

SotiCoto · Jun 22, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrk247

Guild Wars is a game, it doesn't really benefit you in the real world. I understand that people have a competitive nature to them, but it doesn't need to make them be assholes to everyone that isn't up to their standards. I'm sorry but games are different than the real world. Just because they seem realistic, doesn't mean that life is a game. There is no reset button in life, life is not a game. You speak of wisdom, I'd think you would understand the difference between a video game and the real world. This is the kind of attitude that causes people to do stupid shit. For example people killing other people in the real world because they saw it in media like games and movies.

You speak like you think you know what wisdom is, but your words betray that you do not... and it isn't my place to tell nor show you.

But rest assured there is NOTHING about "real life" or the "real world" that makes it any more (nor less) intrinsically valuable than the virtual world... nor indeed anything else. The only difference between the two if anything is that in "real life" you're just the character and not the player... and even that is completely subjective.
Do you seem to assume despite your view that gratuitous violence is "wrong" in "real life" that it is totally alright in a virtual environment? Would you be any more likely to perform acts of extreme sadism if you suddenly became aware that you were just being puppetted by some entity on a higher plane of existence?

Pay attention: Importance is entirely relative. Nothing is intrinsically more valid than anything else... because its concept of value to you is only a label that you personally applied to it. No matter how important or unimportant you might consider something when you elate or belittle it... do please try not to forget that the next person might consider it completely differently..... far more important or perhaps far less than you.

Besides... the people who honestly think the "real world" is that much more important than the virtual are the same people who spend most of their time outside kicking balls around. The very fact that you're here suggests you believe otherwise.

Shuuda · Jun 22, 2007, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrk247

Guild Wars is a game, it doesn't really benefit you in the real world. I understand that people have a competitive nature to them, but it doesn't need to make them be assholes to everyone that isn't up to their standards. I'm sorry but games are different than the real world. Just because they seem realistic, doesn't mean that life is a game. There is no reset button in life, life is not a game. You speak of wisdom, I'd think you would understand the difference between a video game and the real world. This is the kind of attitude that causes people to do stupid shit. For example people killing other people in the real world because they saw it in media like games and movies.

Someone with Wisdom would realise that people have different views on these things, when he said life is a game, prehaps he meant it in the sense that life has challenges and puzzles to overcome, or maybe he believe people should focus on having fun in life, just like in a game, what he said make lots of sense to me.

I could say that nothing in real life benefits much ether because we all die, why do we even try? Any achivement means nothing in the end, so just enjoy the ride.

around · Jun 22, 2007, 03:10 PM // 15:10

So let me get this straight:

Someone blatantly did not follow instructions, and caused a full team wipe. Others have had their enjoyment curtailed because one person was too retarded to follow simple instructions like 'don't take this quest'.

Apparently, it's 'elitist' not to allow these people into your team?

jrk247 · Jun 22, 2007, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

But rest assured there is NOTHING about "real life" or the "real world" that makes it any more (nor less) intrinsically valuable than the virtual world... nor indeed anything else. The only difference between the two if anything is that in "real life" you're just the character and not the player... and even that is completely subjective.

Let's see. You wouldn't even be alive if it weren't for the real world or "life" unless of course you are some kind of smart AI that was born from the virtual world. You have to realise the virtual world wouldn't even be here if it weren't for the real world. And if you believe that the real world doesn't benefit you, I'm sorry for you. The real world is the one you live in, the one you were born in and the one that human beings live in. The internet/virtual world is not the real world.

Too much Matrix talk...

TedTheDead · Jun 22, 2007, 03:42 PM // 15:42

I stopped playing in PUGs and I have stopped playing most PvP except AB, RA or occasionally TA when I can get a full group of guild mates. Almost every GW player, even if they are very skilled at the game, is not skilled in how to treat another human being with the most basic respect. Honestly the GW in-game community is without exception the worst group of people on a social level that I have ever seen in a game before. Which sucks since GW is one of my favorite games of all time.

Quaker · Jun 22, 2007, 03:44 PM // 15:44

My 2 cents......

Yes, it is bad that sometimes people who are new to an area/quest/mission, don't seem to listen and do things they shouldn't. It's best to sit back and watch what other people do first.

But on the other hand, sometimes, the people who are doing these terrible things, are simply doing it the way they are used to. As an example, I've often been in PUGs in TotPK where someone has gone ballistic and rage quit because someone went clockwise around an area instead of counterclockwise, or up the middle. "You noobs, you have to get the other group first - we're all gonna die! I quit! Noobs!!!"

Waaaay too often, much of the fault lies with the people who do know what to do. For example, they don't spend a few moments before going into, say, UW to ask if anyone in the group is new to the area and/or simply pointing out to people a few important things like not to take the quest. Or, in the Urgoz's example above, they should make sure everyone knows what they want them to do BEFORE going into the final room. But no, they go rushing in and THEN start frantically typing things into chat and get pissed off because people don't pay strict attention to every word they say. Most people are concentrating on what's going on in the game and not watching Chat - especially if there's a lot of useless chat going on.
Player A: "I hope I get a glob"
Player B: "Me too, there kewl!"
Player A: " I had 2 but I sold them"
Player C: "don't talk to ghost"
Player A: "I still need 50 to get my FoW armor"
Player B: " me too!"
Player C: "stop!"
Player A: "oh my gawd, what a noob, I quit!"
yada, yada, yada....

Also, one very important thing that some of these "ragers" ignore is there is almost always more than one way to do things. As I said above, sometimes people are doing things 'their' way. For example, most times I've done Urgoz's (been there, done that, got the bows) the groups I've been in have just gone into the last room and skated around the pop-ups while shooting Urgoz until he died. No drama, no waiting for casters to stay outside. I do remember one time when some idiot was screaming at people to do whatever it was he thought was needed, and so everyone died because he had half the people confused, while he was too busy typing to help. Of course, his attitude was "I told you so!" but, no, buddy "You made it so!"

gene terrodon · Jun 22, 2007, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by TedTheDead

I stopped playing in PUGs and I have stopped playing most PvP except AB, RA or occasionally TA when I can get a full group of guild mates. Almost every GW player, even if they are very skilled at the game, is not skilled in how to treat another human being with the most basic respect. Honestly the GW in-game community is without exception the worst group of people on a social level that I have ever seen in a game before. Which sucks since GW is one of my favorite games of all time.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel!

Yichi · Jun 22, 2007, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by TedTheDead

I stopped playing in PUGs and I have stopped playing most PvP except AB, RA or occasionally TA when I can get a full group of guild mates. Almost every GW player, even if they are very skilled at the game, is not skilled in how to treat another human being with the most basic respect. Honestly the GW in-game community is without exception the worst group of people on a social level that I have ever seen in a game before. Which sucks since GW is one of my favorite games of all time.

You must never have played Diablo2 then...

Div · Jun 22, 2007, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Wow... this thread is funny. I have some advice:

Stop QQing because you're bad at the game, and better players wont let you join their teams. Get better, or use Heroes/Hench.

QFT. 12charlimit.

TedTheDead · Jun 22, 2007, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by gene terrodon

Why don't you tell us how you really feel!

Im not trying to offend here, Im simply commenting on the overall type groups I have played with. If it does not apply to you, then dont take offense

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

You must never have played Diablo2 then...

I have. Definantly alot of 12 year old throwing out n00b a bit too much. But I can say I find GW way worse when I play with randoms.

assassin_of_ni · Jun 22, 2007, 04:43 PM // 16:43

some people are just like that...they feel that because they have logged so many hours into the game and have done whatever area countless times that they are the uber-leet sauce and are an authority on said area....it applies to all aspects of the game pve and pvp...only difference is with pvp you also get some rank descrimination since rank is one way to show "seniority"....even though most r5's just iway'd. anyrate thats neither here nor there.

but there is also the issue of players kinda going off and doing what they want....ignoring requests from fellow teammates. especially in an area like DoA where things like that can put an end to several hours of work. you said he didnt read the party chat and took the quest. which if he took the quest at pretty much the same time that whoever said that in party chat...thats one thing, if this was at least 10 seconds or so afterwards then its no longer an elitist problem.

InfernalSuffering · Jun 22, 2007, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Like it or not Elitism is what pushes this and most games. If people were getting accepted even if they were running sub par builds or couldnt use their skills to any sense of effectiveness what incentive would they have to get better? If anybody could get into any build how would the skill level of the game get better? You wouldnt have people even attempting DoA as the skill level would still have rangers with Power Shot. If you accepted unranked people into rank 10++ groups in HA then why would that person get better, knowing that they could already play in the top tier of play?

There are two ways to deal with elitism. The first is getting better. More pew pew, less QQ. If you get better you can get in those groups but until you are as good as those people you have NO RIGHT to yell at them for not letting you in. There are plenty of ways for beginners to break into the scene. For pve you have basically the beginners islands and pre-searing, you wont find elitists there. Use them for what they were designed for. You have more options for pvp with RA and AB or even HB if you really want to. The other option is what many people here seem to have chose: whine on a forum hoping for attention. You try to complain on a forum many expressing times that they have been on the downside of elitism.

Which sounds more like playing the game like it was meant to be? All you complainers go back and sit afk in lion's arch while I go play the game and get better. Dont take the competitve aspect out of my game.

assassin_of_ni · Jun 22, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrk247

Let's see. You wouldn't even be alive if it weren't for the real world or "life" unless of course you are some kind of smart AI that was born from the virtual world. You have to realise the virtual world wouldn't even be here if it weren't for the real world. And if you believe that the real world doesn't benefit you, I'm sorry for you. The real world is the one you live in, the one you were born in and the one that human beings live in. The internet/virtual world is not the real world.

Too much Matrix talk...

but how do we know we live here or are even living. how do we prove that we exist and are in fact the players of the game and not the ones being played. consider this if you will that when we sleep we dream *most days* and sometimes people will say that the dream will feel extremely real. how do we know this isnt the "real world" and this one is the one that we are in because the real world just sucks. or even more so what if we are just the dream of something else higher and at any time can be completely blinked out of existance (not talking about god or a god so dont get all uppity). or maybe we are just a test tube experiment of creatures greater than ourselves. example: we examine micro organizims through a micro scope in a pirti dish...how do we know that we arent the test tube baby of something else. so basically how do we know that this "real world" is the world which in fact we live in...or are we just projected avatars of our true selves in another form just like the matrix. now what if the cirtual world is in fact a true world created by minds of humans...where as our avatars are in fact sentient beings in a virtual plane of existence where our commands control their every movement...every word they say, but not their wills. so it may not be the real world which we may recognize as the real world but it may in fact be A real world to someone/something else entirely.

*plays twilight zone music*

Tiny Killer · Jun 22, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by assassin_of_ni

how do we prove that we exist

I think, therefore I am.

assassin_of_ni · Jun 22, 2007, 07:29 PM // 19:29

that proves thought not existence. how do we know thoughts arent something implanted in our brains from said higher existence? to which i will respond to my question with a...we dont know. and thats what makes life worth living. problem is majority of people in this day and age never really think like that anymore....usually more concerned with the lings that make life a stress. so that is more than likely why most people turn to these online MMO avatar type deals where you can live a life that is unlike our own for the sake of escaping stress. 2 problems with this being 1

nline mmo's tend to have their own form of stress and doesnt help anything that we are actually trying to rid ourselves of which thus makes it redundant and 2:it further seperates our minds from what is real and what is just virtual. to some people these video games are the real life and what could be called real life is now just a sort of outer atmosphere to house their new "real world".

ok as an attempt to end my own rambling before i discover a fissure in the space time continuum....what can be called real ad virtual is more or less an opinion of perception. what is real to you is whats real to you and whats real to me is real to me.

Ecklipze · Jun 22, 2007, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Way to go off the subject matter.

R A N D O M · Jun 22, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFuzzles

heh.

http://scrap.5elements.net/gwscreens/gw016b.jpg

I always put a trap at the door if I have one equipped as it recharges before the match starts anyway, and if a melee class goes after me I can kite them over it. It's unbelievable how many people have a problem with it and assume my skillbar consists of 7 traps+serpents.

I often try to bring dust trap into UW or fissure, but the team will often insist that we're not doing a "trapper build". Ele blind is always welcome though for some reason.

i really hate things like this, i remember being called a noob in RA beacuse i went for the monk first and i also get called things like "wat a rubish sin" or "lame sin" off ppl that iv just killed. i also get annoyed at "eliteists"(mind my spelling) in missions who always blame the monks and the monk gets peed off with em and leaves the team(most often in nahpui quarter i find) and it takes another boring 10 mins to find a team.